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Virtual Machines

(13 posts) (9 voices)

Started 16 years ago by fvshaggy
Latest reply from watcher13

fvshaggy
Member

Hey guys. I have a few questions regarding virutal machines. I wanted to run either Microsoft Virtual machine or get VMWare. I have Returnil that was given away here as well and was wondering if that does the same thing. I don't have too many resources so I don't think I want anything that is too much of a memory hog. Just trying to get some ideas I need this for some classes I am taking at school.

I kind of have some of the basic knowledge of what they do but wanted to see which ones have advantages over others perhaps.

Thanks

Posted 16 years ago #
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

Returnil works for me. Exactly what sort of features ar eyou looking for?

Posted 16 years ago #
Quantum Dragon
Member

Hi fvshaggy,

VMware Workstation is a commercial application and the Microsoft Virtual machine (or Virtual PC SP1 2007 as it is called) is conceived to use only other versions of Windows.

There is another solution: VirtualBox ( http://www.virtualbox.org/ ) with the characteristic of being free for personal use.

I have translated a part of the commentary from this place ( http://www.clubic.com/telecharger-fiche30849-virtualbox.html ) and it says that :

It has an interface quite as simple to control as its competitors, with the possibility of creating a virtual machine in a few clicks and/or of safeguarding several states of the system (very useful for testing).

Assistants for Windows, Linux, OS/2, FreeBSD, Netware or Solaris allow to optimize the performances of the virtual machine for each system.

Opinion of the editor: Very promising, VirtualBox is to be watched. The possibility of managing several states of the system is particularly interesting and its interface is of a great simplicity and makes it possible to install a system in a few clicks.

Here is some more information :

The maker of this program is Innotek, a German company and it was recently acquired by Sun Microsystems.

(See http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/pr/2008-02/sunflash.20080212.1.xml for details.)

You can learn more here : http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox

And also here : http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/TracGuide

View screenshots here : http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Screenshots

Download a version here : http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Get documentation here : http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Documentation

There is a community here : http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Community

AND you can even contribute : http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Contributor_information

I hope that my small contribution helps you

Ciao

QD

Posted 16 years ago #
aRenegade
Member

Why Hello fvshaggy! Virtual machines are inherently resource heavy, that's just the nature of the beast. If your resources are limited you'd do better thinking about an alternative strategy to whatever it is you're thinking about. The other thing is VMWare Workstation is about $189.00.

As for InnoTek's VirtualBox it is a general-purpose full virtualizer for x86 hardware. It's targeted at server, desktop and embedded use, and it's now the only professional-quality virtualization solution that is also Open Source Software. Meaning it's free! VirtualBox has an extremely modular design with well-defined internal programming interfaces, and a client/server design. The configuration settings of virtual machines are stored entirely in XML, and are independent of the local machines. Virtual machine definitions can therefore easily be ported to other computers. You can talk about that with your school mates. Some of them may not know what the heck you're talking about, but I'll bet they'll be impressed. ;)

Posted 16 years ago #
AlexSJ
Member

Whilst I never ran any other virtual app on my application, I don't want to miss Returnil on any of my PC's.
The key to it is, that when you are in protected mode any changes to your system drive are there only virtually, once you restart all is back. That means any changes to configuration, user accounts, registry entries etc.
Thus it is virtual only until you restart your pc.
However, you won't notice it running. I've never experienced any slow-down with the pc that came from it and I once ran a huge SQL database for days without restarting because I had accidently saved it when in protected mode.
It's great for guest users on your pc, kids surfing the net etc. - we also just finished Curse of Montezuma as a demo with it virtually.
Pura vida, AlexSJ

Posted 16 years ago #
Flib Gibbet
Member

Included in this week's Click programme on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7981395.stm is a link to the virtual machine VirtualBox http://www.virtualbox.org/ as mentioned above.

I've never tried this type of software before and I feel intrigued to have a play with it, but the Microsoft warnings during installation about it's possible adverse effects on XP because of lack of certification etc. are detering me from completing the installation.

So what I would like to know from anyone who uses it is, if I fully install it on my machine, is it like any other program that can be readily un-installed leaving the rest of the system intact or does its installation involve modifications to the nether regions of Windows?

Posted 15 years ago #
LetMeSayThis
Member

G'Day

I use Virtual PC on Windows and VMWare Server on Linux, although VMWare works ok on Windows as well (It has the advantage of being able to take snapshots of the VM to enable roll backs etc, when developing for software etc).I run Virtual PC on a 2GHz Dell 9300 laptop that has 2 GB of ram, which runs a version of XP pro and Server 2003 in 2 VM's at the same time with only a small slow down in performance. I have also run 3 VM's at the same time on a Pentium 4 with 2GHz processor and 2GB ram and these were 2 x server 2003 and 1 x XP (this was for MCSE training)and this was quite usable, although i was not doing too much intensive work on it, just some DNS,DC and Group Policy study.

I test Windows, Linux and ISO images within the VM's and any programming that i do as well, i also install all giveaways onto the VM as well, so as to keep my host system clean and if i like something then i will install on the host system.

The VM can be set up as you like in the first instance and saved as your default VM and then when you install anything at a later date, and you dont like it , then you shut down the VM and choose the option to not save changes and this reverts back to the original setup. As for resources, obviously the more real memory that you have on the host machine the better and a recent processor should suffice. Do bear in mind that the graphics drivers installed on the VM are fairly basic VGA drivers and so will not handle graphic intensive stuff.

Hope this info will be of some help.

Posted 15 years ago #
watcher13
Member

I know it's been 6 months, but I'll post this in case someone else has the same question, because I'm not sure Shaggy's question was ever exactly answered here, and I've seen folks confused about this before:

You do realize, Shaggy, that Returnil and programs like VirtualBox are not exactly the same, as LetMeSayThis hints at. You can use a progarm like VirtualBox to do what Returnil does, but you can do much more with it. Returnil is strictly a sandbox for testing. When you fire it up, it only clones part of your primary partition for software testing or safe surfing purposes. It mostly doesn't keep your settings or files created while it's on, unless you move those files to the Z: partition for safe keeping to transfer to your "real" partition. A true virtual program can be used that way if you want, but can do a lot more. It can clone your operating system, but it can also run any guest operating system that you load into it: Linux, other versions of Windows, basically anything that's compatible. In that sense, it's a virtual version of dual booting. It can run "images" from other computers/disks for testing as LetMeSayThis mentions, but, primarily, you can keep changes you make in your new environment if you want and so build an entirely new operating environment in that guest environment.

No offense, I just wasn't sure from your post if you understood the difference. It can be used like Returnil for "sandboxing" if that's all you want to use if for. But that's a byproduct. Returnil is designed for sandboxing, while the others are designed for running completely different OS environments without dual booting, i.e installing partitions permanently dedicated to other OSs and having a boot manager installed for selecting which one to boot from.

Posted 15 years ago #
GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
Blocked

<Sorry, I accidentally posted to the wrong post (redfaced) On a sidenote, however, minor technical info about this post>

The difference between Returnil and a virtual machine is that Returnil protects the hard drive, while a virtual machine emulates an entire PC system.

Posted 15 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Well, yeah GM, but you can use a virtual machine in more than one way, including as surfing security, or as a simple program testing sandbox, or as an image tester, or as a pseudo dual booter. However, as you say, using it as you would Returnil wouldn't be using it the way it was designed. The point is that it's kind of like using a Ferrari as an ox cart. Your hardly using anywhere near it's full potential.

Posted 15 years ago #
LetMeSayThis
Member

G'Day

@SpodoCommodo

I have not used VirtualBox, but if it is the same as VirtualPC and VMWare then you can uninstall the virtual machine software as per any program. What is installed in the first instance is the software to create a VM, ie VirtualPC or VMWare, and you then use this software to create a VM image, which is basically a large single file that contains all of the chosen Operating System ie. Windows XP, Linux et al, by the way this file is transferable between different PC's using the same VM software, in fact you can google for pre-made VM's of various distros, usually Linux based (due to licencing restrictions).

The VM software is like any other software and will only work when you start it up so it uses no resources when turned off, so when you need it start it and away you go.

Hope this helps you.

Posted 15 years ago #
Flib Gibbet
Member

Thanks LetMeSayThis et al for replying - I took the plunge and installed VirtualBox (after taking a disk image backup first).

A couple of years ago I bought a magazine which included disks for installing Linux and, because I didn't have a proper means of backing up my system at that time, it's something I didn't do but which has been in the back of my mind ever since. In the intervening time I've seen reviews of various Linux utilities that I thought would have been nice to have tried and now I have a virtual machine set up to be able to do just that.

All that's now required is to find some of those programs and give them a try...

Posted 15 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Glad it's working out for you, Spodo. I haven't tried it myself, but many people are trying out various Linux flavors from downloadable live CDs first, so they can see if they like a particular Linux flavor before having to install at all. That also allows you to make sure your hardware is compatible. Hardware compatibility is often not an issue, but compatibility isn't universal, either. In any case, you might find these sights interesting, especially if you have any problem with those magazine discs:

An article from a dedicated Linux site about choosing your distribution, also with other site links about choosing a Linux version:
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/60703.html

Also:
http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/introduction_to_linux/sect_01_05.html

And this one's about hardware compatibility, but it's list of machines may not be up to date:
http://hardware4linux.info/

I for one would be interested in hearing how it turns out for you.

Posted 15 years ago #

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