Giveaway of the Day Forums

1. 

   GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
   Blocked

   @squinky86: I think we both had slight misunderstandings: I was thinking about the parent program, not exactly the open-source software at question.

   Anyways, as I mentioned in the post that was deleted by graylox (and I'll refrain from mentioning any "private hacking attempts"), I feel it's not GOTD's job to thoroughly vet programs that may contain improperly licensed (am I saying that right?) open-source software. And instead of complaining on GOTD's forums, the authors of the programs should be contacted instead.

   Also, regarding DVD ripping, I've heard it's legal if you were making a private copy, not distributing it outside of your own devices.

   (BTW, I'll have to ask if the A/V software really had modified versions of FFmpeg; I can't actually check because I'm... err... running Linux right now and it'll take forever for me to boot into Windows and reinstall those programs.)

   Posted 14 years ago #
2. 

   squinky86
   Member

   Hey GMMan,
   I understand completely where you're coming from. My issue is that I tried to inform GOTD about license infractions, and they ignore it. GPL violations and DMCA violations are two separate issues. I think the GPL violations are very obvious. The DMCA, however, is a beast to understand.

   I, too, run linux :)

   As far as the DVD ripping goes, you'll find that the software itself is an illegal circumvention device as defined by the DMCA. Yes, making a backup copy for fair use is legal and protected. Circumventing copyright protection or any tool used to do it (which is required to make your legal backup copy) is prohibited. Just look at what happened last month with Real's dvd ripper - they agreed to settle. You won't find any DVD ripping software here on GOTD that's from America as every time such software is released, it gets sued and loses its court battles to the DMCA. Until the DMCA is ruled unconstitutional (please oh please be soon), circumvention devices are technically illegal.

   So keep the DVD backups you've already made as they are legal (I have nephews and nieces that would regularly scratch up the originals and used to give them backup copies to watch in the car to avoid damage to the originals), but also understand that the software used to remove/circumvent the encryption on your DVD is technically illegal in DMCA-abiding countries. If GOTD is based in the US, I'm very surprised it hasn't received a DMCA takedown notice for distribution of illegal circumvention devices. Just look what Apple did to Psystar in November of last year - they were able to claim that the Finder and a couple other applications in their OS were encrypted; therefore, the hackintoshes used to run those programs were "illegal circumvention devices" as they weren't authorized by Apple to decrypt the copyright protection. The argument worked and made Psystar pay up. It's some crazy-oppressive laws, but they're laws nonetheless.

   You'll hear arguments all the time about "oh, the DMCA hasn't been tested by the supreme court" or "the courts still haven't decided if the DMCA trumps existing fair use laws..."
   They're all pretty much in these flavors. No, the supereme court hasn't ruled on the DMCA yet, but that doesn't make it any less binding. Hopefully they will rule it unconstitutional soon. The fair use argument is also pretty easy to understand.

   This example is oversimplified, but suppose congress passes a law that it's ok to eat chocolate ice cream (similarly, suppose congress passes a law stating that you can make back up copies of something you own - this is the basic concept of fair use). Now, suppose Congress passes a law that you cannot eat chocolate ice cream on Sundays (similarly, they pass a law stating that you cannot circumvent copyright protection/encryption). Do you then eat the chocolate ice cream on Sunday, stating the first law as your permission to do so? Fair use's silence regarding copyright protection (usually using encryption) is not a permissive silence, and the DMCA's wording prohibiting such actions has stood up in court most of the time over fair use's silence.

   Hopefully I explained the DMCA in an easily understood way; if anyone has any questions about specifics in the DMCA, I'll be more than happy to answer them if I believe that they have not been fully answered already.

   Posted 14 years ago #
3. 

   GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
   Blocked

   A note about GOTD not responding to your messages: They don't really respond to anyone's messages. An entry in their blog is a rare occurrence. I think they just can't be bothered about anything, as a while ago they said something about them being busy at their "other projects," whatever they may be.

   Posted 14 years ago #
4. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   ODF, and Microsoft's Office v Open Office they all do it, Don't for get IObit Security 360

   Posted 14 years ago #
5. 

   aRenegade
   Member

   @Robert,

   Here's a quoit from squinky86:

   "Can we ban giveawayoftheday from this site already? It pushes software that would be illegal if the creators were in the US just about every other day."

   And here's the link to it:

   http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/expired-deals/1000072?highlight_key=y&keyword1=copyright

   Incidentally, my intention in the example I wrote in my reply to squinky86 the other day regarding Italian's was strictly meant to show stereotyping in its ugliest form. My apologies for not explaining that intent better.

   I would like to point out again that the same programs squinky86 used in that Fatwallet post are available on many, many other sites and yet squinky86 only targeted GOTD. I still believe there's more than meets the eye with squinky86 motives.

   Posted 14 years ago #
6. 

   2-SHEDS
   Member

   I'm not doubting the motives of Squinky here. FatWallet is all about saving money and I'm sure ppl post about GOTD giveaways all the time. He's probably sick of seeing these free giveaways constantly posted there when his feelings about copyright infringent come to light with them every so often.

   Personally, I think Squinky's dead on. It's not the case with all software given away here of course, but let's not kid ourselves either.

   Posted 14 years ago #
7. 

   squinky86
   Member

   aRenegade:
   I was frustrated with three software titles in a row. That phrase was hyperbolic in nature, and the FW mods took it as such with an equally hyperbolic remark in their reply to my request for marking the thread as morally questionable. If that quotation was not taken as hyperbole (which was my intent and was taken correctly by those to whom it was intended for), I apologize for the misrepresentation.

   I mean... you caught me, I'm a secret spy from a rival site with the intent of destroying GOTD (insert weird devil emoticons).

   Please understand - I'd rather see GOTD clean up and not distribute stolen code than see it banned from anywhere. If GOTD doesn't clean up, I'd rather see links to software titles that do steal code on GOTD banned from the FW forum. That is a matter of opinion, and the FW mods met me half-way in marking the links to stolen code as questionable. Additionally, that forum has nothing to do with this forum. FW does a good job of marking the links to stolen code as morally dubious. You'd be frustrated, too, if you saw a project steal code from you and make a profit off of it, then have the distributors not respond to any of your emails.

   2-SHEDS:
   Thank you, I really do appreciate that :)

   I'm not sure what other motives aRenegade thinks I have, but I'd be more than happy to address them. As far as I know, I'm currently the only squinky86 on the internet, so feel free to google around (though I do acknowledge the possibility of other squinky86s existing somewhere). You'll find where I was a Gentoo Linux developer for a while, I worked on Asterisk (VoIP) some, and even had a stint where I worked some on filesharing networks (and even developed a method of using filesharing networks to distribute the source packages for Gentoo Linux). I stopped working on p2p networks when I ran a gnutella cache and node, and found that most of the searches I was handling were for copyrighted music, illegal programs, or were pornographic in nature. I then stopped working on p2p projects for my own moral conscience (though I still maintain that it can be used for legal distribution of content). You should be able to find some of my contributions still documented by google to confirm that.

   My motives should be clear: don't steal code. If you find out you're distributing code that's stolen, fix it. I have no other motives in this than the motive of morality. Please, feel free to dig up anything on me and post it here. I think it's perfunctory to the issue we're discussing, but I'll be more than happy to address it. Free syringe of thermal paste (for your CPU) to the next person who can find a curse word I've said/posted (quotations/emails that are being responded to and left in-tact or fully quoted do not count; only my response to those quotations count)!

   Posted 14 years ago #
8. 

   Anonymous
   Unregistered

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

   Have a look at Berne Convention signatory countries (in blue).
   Copyright law is different from country to country, and a copyright notice is required in about 20 countries Yes only 20 !!!!! the rest do as they like !!

   http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

   http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Office-Open-XML-Down-but-Not-Out/

   Posted 14 years ago #
9. 

   Robert
   StrayCat

   @aRenegade

   Well Jon sure has an impressive list of hits on Google...

   Still if I didn't know any better I'd sense a grumpy dev focusing on 'foreign' software and ,for some strange reason, solely targeting Gotd.

   But I'm sure his only aim is to make us aware of copyright infringements ,even if that means turning each bit of software inside out and questioning unknown dll's.
   So I assume his crusade will get lots of attention over here ,just like it did on Fatwallet in the early days.

   Still he could have fooled me with his request to block all links to Gotd on Fatwallet, trying to put people up against Gotd, even admitting "that phrase was hyperbolic in nature" ,over here that is.

   And I did come across some unfounded arguments against companies, like apart from containing copyright infringements, software also being infected by malware,merely based on unverified facts on blogs of a sensationalist nature.

   In short,if some of that negative energy were to be used in a positive way, contributing to this forum, Jon would make one hell of a member being a retired dev.

   Posted 14 years ago #
10. 

    squinky86
    Member

    Robert: You say,

    And I did come across some unfounded arguments against companies, like apart from containing copyright infringements, software also being infected by malware,merely based on unverified facts on blogs of a sensationalist nature.

    I believe I have backed up my arguments with code analysis for any companies I called out individually. Could you please provide a link? I did have one piece of software from GOTD whose uninstaller didn't remove the binary it installed, and another that installed an additional toolbar without warning, but I think those statements hardly qualify as "unfounded."

    As for "targeting" only GOTD, I do understand what you're saying now. I have concentrated my efforts here, as I thought this sites had one of the more active communities out there. (you've gotta start somewhere)

    I would definitely like to get involved with GOTD, even if it's only reviewing software prior to its release to make sure that it's not violating any US copyright law (am I right to assume GOTD is US-based?) or stealing code from any other projects.

    I also realize that my comment about banning links to GOTD should not have been said. I do apologize for that. I still think the mods at FW took the exaggeration appropriately and in good fun, but I do understand how such a statement, especially if taken literally, would offend many people here. I sincerely apologize for that.

    Posted 14 years ago #
11. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    not violating any US copyright law !! That is only in the US Have a look at Berne Convention signatory countries (in blue). only 20 how do you fix that !!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

    http://www.betanews.com/article/Nokia-sues-Apple-again-this-time-over-iPad/1273247987

    Now, the Finnish company has filed another suit against Apple ' can you stop that. '

    Posted 14 years ago #
12. 

    Anonymous
    Unregistered

    http://www.eff.org/related/11254/blog (08:10:2010)

    Righthaven LLC, which has brought over 130 lawsuits in Nevada federal court claiming copyright infringement, has a different angle, preferring to acquire the copyrights rather than represent the owner. Righthaven focuses on news: it trolls by (a) scouring the Internet for newspaper stories (or parts thereof)

    But instead of allowing websites to remove or amend the content in question, Righthaven goes straight to court, seeking to profit by gaining sums far greater than any actual harm the newspapers may have suffered.

    For more on copyright trolls : Copyright Trolls

    https://www.eff.org/issues/copyright-trolls

    Posted 14 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.